The Norah and Dad Show

War on Women

May 10, 2022 Norah Hyman and Jon Hyman Episode 19
The Norah and Dad Show
War on Women
Show Notes Transcript

How does it feel to be young woman living in a country that seeks to ban your right to body autonomy? Not great, per the young woman who co-hosts this podcast. This week, Norah and Dad discuss the leaked opinion that stands to overturn Roe v. Wade and permit states to ban abortion, what it could mean, how it makes us feel, and where we go from here.

If you're pro-life, let us suggest you skip this episode and come back next week for something less triggering.

Looking for more information on this issue from a legal viewpoint? Check out the Hostile Work Environment podcast.

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Question? Ideas for a future episode? Email us at norahanddadshow@gmail.com.

Intro music written and performed by norah marie.

Dad:

Hey, Nora,

Norah:

Hello, dad,

Dad:

what are we talking about this week?

Norah:

we're going to talk about Roe V. Wade today.

Dad:

Hey, welcome everybody to the Nora and dad show. I am as always dad and I'm here with as always, my lovely 15, almost 16 year old daughter, Hey Nora. What's up.

Norah:

Nothing much.

Dad:

So you picked the very light and airy, topic of abortion to talk about this week, which is obviously important and super timely. It's been all over the news. And an issue that as a young woman is important to you. I know, as it is to women and those of us that are, allies of women everywhere. I want to hear kind of where you are and what you have to think, but I thought maybe it made sense to kind of give a little summary of kind of where we are with this. Does that make sense? Okay, sure. So I don't. Talk a lot of law on this podcast. It's my day job. and I, and I'm not a constitutional lawyer, I'm an employment lawyer. This is not, I don't practice in this area of law, but I thought it made sense just to kind of back up and kind of give the kind of lay of the abortion land abortion, has been legal in the U S since 1973. I am, Roe V. Wade, old The Supreme court case that made it illegal for states to place unreasonable restriction on women's right. To have an abortion was decided just a couple of weeks before I was born. So I've never lived in an era when Roe V. Wade wasn't the law of the land, states have tried since to ratchet back, women's right. To choose one of the latest efforts was a 2018 law. That was the Genesis of the case. We're going to talk about, Dobbs vs Jackson women's health organization. It sought to find, Mississippi's gestational age act illegal. Act, banned any abortion, after the first 15 weeks of pregnancy with an exception for medical emergencies, for the mom, severe fetal abnormality. but it did not include any exceptions for rape or incest. Those were, just as illegal under the law, as, any other abortion after 15 weeks of age, the Supreme court heard arguments on this, typically a decision like this. This is the biggest case. The court is going to decide this term. we typically see those opinions on the last day, the court releases opinion sometime in mid to late June, last week, someone inside the Supreme court leaked. justice Alito is a majority opinion, which was a five for opinion. not only upholding Mississippi's gestational age act, but, throwing out Roe V. Wade, Entirely overturning it as a law of the land and sending it back to the states on a state by state basis to decide whether or not they were going to ban abortion, make abortion, illegal, criminalize abortion. Among the greatest hits from justice Alito was leaked opinion was, him calling Roe V Wade quote, agregious only wrong from the start. and as not deeply rooted in history, it's worth noting that the history that justice Alito or some of the history justice Lido did rely on in reaching his. Decision, at least in the draft opinion, was to treat us as written by a 17th century, lawyer by the name of sir Matthew Hale, he was a British. who among his, greatest hits was having at least two women executed for witchcraft and writing the treatise that ultimately made marital rape legal. So I'm not sure, sir. Matthew Hale

Norah:

that's

Dad:

person. Yeah. I'm not sure he's the best person to rely on, on a woman's rights, issue. Other things of note, justice, Amy Coney Barrett, in some sort of bench memorandum that was also leaked, said that one of her reasons for supporting the overturning of Roe V Wade was that the U S needs quote, a domestic supply of infants, to meet the needs of parents. Seeking to adopt babies, on the heels of this opinion being leaked. And actually before it states we're getting ready, planning for Roe to be overturned, at least 22 Republican leaning states by their past or in the process of passing anti-abortion related bills. some states have trigger laws that will kick into effect as soon as, Roe is overturned. the most extreme of those laws, for example, are in states like Louisiana, which, would classify abortion as homicide and allow prosecutors to criminally charged patients. That Louisiana law also, would grant rights from the moment of fertilization that is as soon as the sperm fertilizes, the egg, which is before that is even like implanted in the uterus. We're seeing even further pushback now from, other Republicans, there's a Senate candidate in, Arizona, who said that if he was elected, he would vote against any judge, coming up for confirmation in the us Senate, unless they committed to overturn Griswold V Connecticut, which is the 1965 Supreme court case, which created up a constitutional right to contraception. And as a very long-winded way of saying it is an absolute mess right now, out there, for,, women, for privacy advocates for, anybody who believes in. Certain fundamental liberties that started with the Griswold case. Contraception led to Roe V. Wade, other rights at issue potentially because they fall under the same line of cases, our rights like gay marriage, the right to kind of what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom with another person or people, interracial marriage would also potentially be at risk. If this line of cases falls, it's a mess. So with that, and Nora, how's it feel to be a woman these days?

Norah:

Not great.

Dad:

Do you care to explain.

Norah:

I don't know. I just, I don't think any of this is fair.

Dad:

Yeah. It's it is, I don't know it, a bunch of men telling you what you can or can't do with your bodies.

Norah:

And like, I don't know the majority of people, at least in statistics that have been like taken don't want it to get overturned.

Dad:

yeah, I

Norah:

majority, but it's still the majority. I think it's like 60 to 40. Isn't

Dad:

I don't think it's small. I think it's 70 to 30, I think only 30. I don't think only 30% and think only 30% of the country actually supports making abortion illegal. it? is. Oh, I hear you furiously typing away to look up the statistics. Um, that's that, that's the level of show prep we do here. We'd look it up on the fly as we're going. Um, yeah. Do you have a number for us?

Norah:

Oh, I do. Okay. A majority of Americans say that they should, this was five days ago

Dad:

ago

Norah:

due to. Okay. So it's not like a it's it's because there's obviously people who don't like care. Um, but it's like 4 50, 4 to 28.

Dad:

You know what that's crap, because if you are a woman or no, a woman, this is an issue you should care about because you have, uh, five people, um, on the United States, Supreme court telling you, what you can or can't do with your body. So I think it's crap to say that people that aren't there, there might be people that don't care, but they should.

Norah:

okay. Let's see. So 23%. So the different website, 23% of people, I have to, one second. I have to accept the use of cookies before I can read the

Dad:

Oh, good Lord. the number that's most the number, the number that's most frequently kicked around is only 30%. Support banning abortion, in one form or another. And I think, uh, some of them would even allow abortion, you know, in cases of rape and incest and, and, to save the life of the mother. but what we're looking at right now is. nearly half the country in which abortion is just going to be flat out illegal. And, it's stinks that were, taken away a right that's existed for 50 years that we're rolling back the clock 50 years to criminalize abortion and women were having forced to have coat hanger abortions in alleyways, or are in shady doctor's offices

Norah:

or using like natural stuff and like potentially killing yourself from like

Dad:

yeah, this is a.

Norah:

things in Yom

Dad:

A major public safety issue. But I think beyond that, and I don't want to downplay the significance of the Supreme court taking away the right to abortion because it's, it's significant. Because it, it is telling women that they don't have autonomy over what they do with their bodies. And so I don't want to downplay the significance of that, but I think what we're looking at here is potentially much further reaching implications. When you hear that states like Louisiana want to define, Human life is starting at fertilization. It puts at risk. Things like in vitro fertilization. And I don't think we've talked about this on the podcast before, but, but you've yes, you were an IVF, baby. Your mom and I did decide to do IVF to have, we didn't know it was going to be you at the time, and we went through, an IVF cycle, that resulted in 15 embryos of those 15 embryos, three were implanted, and one took and became you, but 12 of them did not survive outside the womb. and. two of them did not survive inside and you're going to define, life as starting at fertilization and define life as starting at fertilization. Then if you have a medical procedure, Creates 15 lives under the Def under the outer, how that law is going to define life. Then if 14 of them don't make it, that is, that is problematic under that law as it's written. And I have grave concerns that it puts, things like IVF At risk, which sucks because without IVF, we wouldn't have you and we wouldn't have this, um, Right. It would just be the dad show. And I might not even be a dad because there would have been an order. It would just be the John show. And we'd all be very, very sad. The world, the world would have been deprived. The greatness of neuro Hyman and the world would have been a much, much sad or much less rich place if you were not here. So, that's all my way of saying that I think this, this, opinion sucks. There is a strong. vocal evangelical minority in this country. That will be very, very happy if we, all, adopted their Christian right view of the world. and, for those of us that don't subscribe to that worldview or that, even that religion, it, it scares me.

Norah:

I mean, it's also not going to get rid of abortion, just going to get rid of, so it's like safe abortion,

Dad:

Oh, it's a massive, it's a massive public health issue for sure.

Norah:

the only like targets poor people as well, because if you're rich and you don't want to have a kid and you get pregnant, you can fly or travel somewhere to get an abortion where you don't really have that luxury. If, you know, you need to work to live, or if you just don't have the money to travel in general.

Dad:

There is no doubt that it is that it is going to disproportionately affect poor people that is going to disproportionately impact, black and brown people. I mean, the reality is, is that if Ohio made abortion illegal and you got pregnant, Put you on a plane with your mom and me, and we could fly to New York or California or wherever at, to have it done. Now, having said that, and you know, my, my view is partly colored by the fact that I saw you as an eight cell organism, through a microscope, up on a blast it up on a TV screen, that it's not something. I could never do or support someone close to me doing, but it doesn't mean I don't believe the right should exist. It's just not, it's just, it's not a choice I could make. And as a man, I'm not sure it's my place to make that choice anyway, but I don't think I could support someone making that choice except in the most extreme of circumstances. But having said that, you know, if we have, we have means. We could put you on a plane to go somewhere or drive somewhere or whatever.

Norah:

I would never personally have an abortion. I just, I don't think that's something I could do, but I think. Like everyone else should be allowed to, if they want to be like, I am like, nobody is getting an abortion because they're like, Ooh, it's an abortion. And I mean, I would like

Dad:

Cause it's the cause it's the cool

Norah:

Yeah. Like, and I would like to believe that nobody's using abortion as a form of birth control. I mean, I don't know everybody, but like, it's not a fun experience. It's not a cheap experience. Like it is a last resort type thing nobody's using that as their main form of like contraceptive.

Dad:

Yeah. The other thing that I find really interesting as we talk about. You know, certain forces within the government trying to impose a certain kind of Christian right view of the world and a country that's supposed to have separation of church and state under the constitution. those same people would probably scream from the top of their lungs about things like Sharia law and whatnot. And, there was news just came out of Afghanistan a couple of days ago about the Taliban, threatening to execute men whose wives did not cover their entire bodies from head to toe. And I don't see this abortion issue. Is that different from that in all of that?

Norah:

Yeah, no, cause it's the same thing. It's the government putting restrictions. What a woman can and can't do.

Dad:

as you look at this and you think of, you know, is our issues like gay marriage next on the, the right wing, hit squad, our issues like interracial marriage next are issues like, that one guy running for Senate in Arizona says he wants to take away the right to contraceptives. as a woman. Growing up in America in 2022, which feels more like 1922 or 1822, but in 2022, like what's your level of concern.

Norah:

Hi. Um, yeah.

Dad:

and it stinks cause you don't even have a voice. Like you can't even, you've got two years so you can even vote.

Norah:

Yeah. I mean, I don't really think voting is going to fix anything at this point a little too far, along for that.

Dad:

So, how do we, how do we fix it then? Nora? What do we do?

Norah:

I don't know.

Dad:

Well, that's hopeless.

Norah:

mean, there's protests going on, but like there's only so much protests can do. I F cause I mean, considering how, of like controversial in how people are, most people are very like sentence done with their opinions surrounding abortion. I really don't think much is going to help anything because this is like what conservatives have been trying to go after, since Roe V. Wade has, was introduced.

Dad:

Oh, as long as I remember learning about politics, I remember people talking about, Roe V. Wade as the, as the issue. And it was, Yeah. there's there was a, uh, yes, that is why, it was so important that Donald Trump got to appoint three people at the Supreme court, three people, who lied about overturning Roe V Wade. All three, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and. Amy Coney Barrett all said during their confirmation hearings, that Roe V Wade was precedent, precedent important. It must be protected. And then they all voted to overturn precedent. And for the non-lawyers out in the audience, precedent is, supposed to be followed. Once something is the law of the land, it's, it's set as precedent. It's supposed to remain as such and it's it's. And, we have seen precedent in this country overturned. Four on significant issues. We used to have racial segregation, separate but equal brown V board of education. Overturned that and said, separate, but equal is unconstitutional. Everything must, must be equal period. but that was, that was granting, right? It was, this is, this is taking away rights that women have had for 50 years. And it just, it just, it doesn't just feel different. It is. And it, to me, it doesn't feel wrong. It, it is wrong. And so I don't, I don't know how we fix the problem. I'm not sure it's fixable at this point. I, I feel like our country's, I feel like our country is broken and I'm not, I'm not sure how to fix it. Um, but I, I feel bad that you're, that you are living in this. that, that feels hell bent on taking away your fundamental rights as a woman.

Norah:

I'm worried that my medicine is going to get taken away. I need my medicine.

Dad:

Yeah. You take,

Norah:

I take birth control.

Dad:

I don't want to share your personal stuff, but,

Norah:

for, for really bad cramps. And without it, I will end up in the hospital like I did before. So.

Dad:

Yeah. And then if, if Griswold V Connecticut goes away, the right to if states can criminalize contraceptives, you know, Ohio is trying really hard to be the Florida of the north. And, um, and that's not a good thing to be it's we should not be striving for that.

Norah:

Well, the one thing that I think can help because. Like voting for governors because can't, they choose whatever to do. Like they get to choose whether or not.

Dad:

uh, yes, but I guess they do they, I mean, it works the same way.

Norah:

if you want it to say in your, in your state vote blue,

Dad:

Yes. I mean, it works the same way as it does on the federal level. I mean, there's, there's a Senate and house of representatives and the state level and, and they, they pass laws and the governor has to sign them. So it's very similar. I think one of the byproducts, when you look at kind of an unintended consequences of bad things, where I think maybe one of the unintended consequences here is that, this is an issue that could absolutely energize people to go to the polls and vote. And it's an issue that the Republicans have used forever to energize their base, to go vote, you know, vote, to vote, to make abortion illegal. it got them where we are today. It, it it's, I would say that was a successful strategy. Um, but I think as we look to unintended consequences, maybe, maybe this will energize people to. To otherwise might've set out the midterms because they're not happy with the direction of the country that would the economy or Biden or whatever. Maybe this will get them to go vote in November and preserve some majority's in, in houses of Congress.

Norah:

I think we might even see some states turn blue to.

Dad:

Well, we can hope, and now we're both wearing our politics on our sleeve, but that's fine because it's our podcast. And if people don't want to. listen, guess what they guess what they do.

Norah:

They

Dad:

cannot. They can not, They can not listen, So that's, that's exactly right. Um, any, any further thoughts on this really important issue?

Norah:

go vote. I can't. But in November, go vote for what you believe in.

Dad:

I'll vote twice. Once for me once for

Norah:

Oh, that's I think that would cause lots of problems.

Dad:

All right. I won't vote twice.

Norah:

Don't don't unlike if you are a man, do not think about yourself when you're voting, think about the woman in your life and how it may affect them, because it does not affect you.

Dad:

your mom, your sister, your wife, your daughter, whomever. Everybody knows a woman. If you're not one. And, and, uh, yes, and this, this impacts them, if not directly, because they're pregnant and having an abortion, at least on a psychological level, impacts them, more than anything. And the last thing you. want to do is. be a part of, a system that's responsible for forcing a woman to carry a baby to term that doesn't want to carry the baby to term. And that just the, that mental health issues, the physical health issues, the cost, all of it. Do your part to do the right thing, I guess is maybe the way to put it. All right. Well, this was a deeper than usual episode of the show, but I

Norah:

week will be fun though. We're talking about prom next week.

Dad:

Yeah, prom on Friday for Nora and we'll we'll, we'll give everyone a prom update, next week. if you want to know more about the legal issues here, my friends, mark and Kate who hosts the hostile work environment, podcasts their episode this week. Is going to cover the Roe V. Wade slash abortion issue, from the, from a legal and workplace perspective. So go check out a hostile work environment, wherever you find your podcasts we'll be back next week with a new episode talking, about something not as serious nor is, uh, hopefully not as serious. Uh, if, if, if you're promised a serious, is this something went very wrong.

Norah:

no, it's going to be fun and not serious.

Dad:

Awesome. And I've, and I've seen the dress you're going to look beautiful. So

Norah:

you. And we spent money on makeup.

Dad:

we did, we went and makeup shopping. That was exciting. Dad loves going makeup shopping.

Norah:

was really quick. It was like seven minutes tops.

Dad:

Oh yeah. I know you, you were great. I really, I really appreciated

Norah:

did all the shopping online.

Dad:

so we'll be back next week. We can update everybody on prom. And anything else that happens in the week nor real quick, uh, where can people find you?

Norah:

Nora Marie music.

Dad:

And people can find me at John Hyman. That's no age. Nora is with the H uh, we will see everybody next week. Have a great week nor I Love you, kiddo.

Norah:

you too.