Lawyers, Guns, and Money

It's mock trial season, and Norah's on the team. In this week's episode, Norah shares all about her mock trial experience as her team prepares for the next round of the competition. She explains why she chose mock trial over this year's musical (after having the lead role last year) and describes what the case is all about. And Dad, who's seen his fair share of trials, gushes about just how impressive these kids are.

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Intro music written and performed by norah marie.

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Question? Ideas for a future episode? Email us at norahanddadshow@gmail.com.

Intro music written and performed by norah marie.

Transcript

Dad 0:00

Hey, Nora,

Norah 0:02

What are we going

Dad 0:02

what are we going to talk about this week?

Norah 0:04

So today we want you to talk about mock trial

Dad 0:20

Welcome back to the Nora and dad show. I am as. The aforementioned dad, otherwise known as John with me. I have,

Norah 0:30

Nora.

Dad 0:32

Hey Nora, how are you doing this week?

Norah 0:34

Great. It has been a lovely week. I have no homework this weekend and I have a fun day tomorrow. And it's your birthday? Sunday. And then it's a short week of school. And then I have mock trial. I'm just high on life right now.

Dad 0:51

Ooh, what's your fun weekend this weekend. Tell, tell everyone about your fun planned weekend.

Norah 0:56

With my boyfriend.

Dad 0:58

You have a date. Does, does Ryan know you have.

Norah 1:02

No,

Dad 1:03

Oh, all right. Well, hopefully he doesn't listen.

Norah 1:05

no. Yes. Ryan knows that we're going on a date.

Dad 1:09

What are you guys doing?

Norah 1:11

Well, we are, I'm starting at school of rock and then Ryan is going to pick me up and then we're going to go through. And then we're going to go ice skating and then we're going to wait around for a couple of hours because the only reservation we can get was for 10:00 PM. And then we're probably going to sleep fun day.

Dad 1:31

lovely Valentine's day. Adjacent together.

Norah 1:37

Skipping winter formal

Dad 1:39

Skipping winter formal to have a little private date. That's lovely dad

Norah 1:46

know, a lot of people aren't going to winter formal actually. why is

Dad 1:49

Uh, why is

Norah 1:50

very well organized.

Dad 1:52

So that's like winter, like winter prom, winter homecoming, like what's the winter homecoming. You went to fall homecoming. You'll go to prom

Norah 2:02

Yes.

Dad 2:03

Winter formal

Norah 2:04

I don't know. I want, I don't want to buy another dress or have you and mom bought her dress. I'm going to wear once. So

Dad 2:09

appreciate that. We very much appreciate not having to buy a third dress at a year, that you're only going to wear one time because God forbid you show up at a dance wearing the same dress you

Norah 2:20

Not at Lakeridge. Get kicked out.

Dad 2:22

I understand. I understand. So you also mentioned mock trial next week is how we for you guys, because your competition is next Friday, is that, do I have the date?

Norah 2:36

And yeah, I don't know. Okay. Maybe I am just not seasoned mock trial. Partaker, but I'm like, really? I don't know how weak does not scare me. Everyone is like, uh, hell week, it's the worst, but I enjoy it a lot. I just get to sit there and watch and do my thing. And then I talk for like 20 minutes and then I'm out for the count. So it's fine. And then I get feedback and then I do it again. So

Dad 3:01

So let's, let's back up and give everyone a little bit of context, uh, Lakeridge academy, your school, mock trial is a really, really, really big deal. some people joke

Norah 3:12

is the football team,

Dad 3:14

joke, half serious that it is the football team of lake Ridge academy. Since you guys don't have a football team, you're too small instead, people take mock trial super, super, super, seriously. I was incredibly surprised when you went out for mock trial, instead of auditioning for the upper school musical, the two events, the two activities

Norah 3:36

okay. Well, it,

Dad 3:38

you really.

Norah 3:39

fairness, I was kind of sucked into doing it, but I'm very glad that I was, I was in history class, the person who runs mock trial, is also my own history teacher. She was kind of complaining that they weren't going to have enough people to join a third team and they normally bring three teams. And then I was like, oh, like I have to stay after school. Can I come and watch like some of mock trial, just for fun. Like, I didn't have any homework so I may as well. So I went and watched and then she was like, okay, you ready to audition? And I was like, oh, okay. And then I auditioned and I made it so, but I'm really. glad that I did

Dad 4:17

year,

Norah 4:18

last year, you

Dad 4:19

last year, you did not do my trial. You did the musical and you were as a freshmen, the lead in the upper school music.

Norah 4:27

lead was supposed to be played by a freshmen. That's how the musical was written.

Dad 4:31

Don't sell yourself short. They have y'all your high school kids look the same. They could have gotten a senior to play a freshmen.

Norah 4:37

Fair enough.

Dad 4:38

So, and, and it was really cool. It was all recorded. And you guys did cool things like, like Tik TOK videos and other things. Everybody watched it from home. It was shot as a, like a movie

Norah 4:48

we do not speak of ranked.

Dad 4:51

why do you not? That's what, that's

Norah 4:52

It is a,

Dad 4:53

ranked. Why do you not speak of

Norah 4:54

a dirty word within the Lakeridge thespians community.

Dad 4:57

Why?

Norah 4:58

like, it was fun to do once, but like never again.

Dad 5:02

Oh, to do it like

Norah 5:02

virtually and then also, I Don't want to dish the musical. The musical was not the most well written musical in terms

Dad 5:13

don't don't just the musical. Your HBO documentary has not come out

Norah 5:16

terms of like characters development, they were all very static.

Dad 5:24

oh, I thought it was a lousy story.

Norah 5:25

The music was,

Dad 5:26

I thought it was a lousy story.

Norah 5:28

to sing. Um, I'm not a dancer, so I will not comment on the dancing, but the acting left a lot to be, uh, what's the word yes. Yeah. Okay.

Dad 5:43

Yes. And I say HBO documentary, and that's no joke. Like there is, there is supposed to be like, I signed a

Norah 5:48

we allowed to talk about

Dad 5:49

to be,

Norah 5:51

Oh,

Dad 5:51

I don't, I don't know. There was, I sure. Why not? I mean, it was. Publicized there was, I saw a website for the, like the documentary. There was a, this the same people. Yeah. It's the same people that made the documentary about the Boston marathon bombing terrorist attack, or making a documentary about this musical ranked because it was written specifically to PR to be performed, like either live in person or virtual. during the pandemic. And so they, I think there was a bunch of high schools around the country that were doing it and yours being one of them. And so there supposed to be at some point a documentary on HBO about the musical, which would presumably include at least some footage from the folks at your school. Since I know the school sent them footage and I signed a release, and I guess there's no guarantees, but presumably because you were the lead, I would assume I would assume you'd be in it.

Norah 6:46

The song that we flick filmed for it. I mean, like, I didn't know. I'm like came into film. It was like filming on our phones. I was not a part of it. So like I was in like, uh, like I had like two lines in the song, so

Dad 7:01

I want my release back.

Norah 7:03

we all were Lakeridge merged to a squeezed into mom's sweatshirt.

Dad 7:07

So my point is given that you were the lead last year in a year in the thespian troupe, which is like the theater

Norah 7:13

club. Yeah. whatever

Dad 7:15

club, fraternity, whatever you want to call it. I was very surprised that you opted for mock trial over. The musical, but really happy being that I'm a lawyer. And, I did mock trial in high school and I thought it was a really valuable experience. for me, I was super excited when you decided to do it. And by all accounts, you're enjoying

Norah 7:37

I love it. It's so fun. I also just really like the teacher who does it.

Dad 7:42

Can you give a. Summary of what the, of what the case is about. The floor is yours.

Norah 7:52

I'm going to give a very bias take from the respondent's point of view. so basically this dude Hollis Fitzpatrick has owned a restaurant Fitzpatrick's for a very long time before him. It was his parents. And before that it was his grandparents. So it's been in the family for a really long time and yeah. I just got passed out and him generally generationally and it wasn't really doing well, Like he made like$17,000 in profit yearly. like it was like he was making a little bit of profit, but not much. It wasn't a very well run or stable restaurant. So then the pandemic hits and, you know, everyone has to close down and he gets two PPO loans that totaled up

Dad 8:39

well, everyone had to close down. He was P was forced to close down

Norah 8:42

yeah. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye. Buckeye

Dad 8:44

yeah, like the government, like Buckeye state subbing for the state of

Norah 8:48

governor to beer instead of governor, governor divine.

Dad 8:51

The restaurant, uh, by force of the governor's shut down order had to shut down because of COVID. Okay. Good.

Norah 8:59

yeah, that happened and then got$500,000 in PPO. Paid as employees. And like that was really, it argued that he didn't have them or they didn't have enough money to do anything else. I didn't do any online delivery. They didn't really adapt in any way to like, overcome the troubles of the pandemic. so now Mr or Mrs. Hollis Fitzpatrick is claiming that the government is responsible for the restaurant shutting down and. some sort of compensation for it.

Dad 9:34

They were eventually allowed to reopen after being shut down for a short amount of time, but they had to follow very strict COVID guidelines, like

Norah 9:42

yeah. And. the restaurant was already really small. Like it could only hold 36 people, So they weren't making very much money at like, once those regulations are in place.

Dad 9:52

So his claim essentially, is that because the COVID, Safety rules. he couldn't, he couldn't operate his business profitably. He was forced to shut down and that those COVID rules ran him out of business, which he argues is a partial taking, without just compensation under the fifth amendment of the constitution. It is a really interesting case. it is a loser from. 40,000 foot view as the actual attorney it is, a loser of a case for Mr or Mrs. Hollis Fitzpatrick. but I think, I mean, I've now watched, I, I came in and talked to your class about the case and I watched your trial the first time. And there there's arguments on both sides too, but why don't you want to, you talk about kind of the role you play. You are not an attorney in the case, you are a witness. So why don't you talk about who your witnesses and the role that you play in the case? and which side you're on.

Norah 10:52

okay. I am Aspen Bennett. I former waitress of the Fitzpatrick's restaurant. Um, worked there For six years. Didn't really like it. The pay wasn't good tips. Weren't good. Never served very many people. And then once the pandemic hit, I made so many suggestions for adaptations and changes in the restaurant that Hollis ignored and yada yada yada. So basically my job is to prove like that a, the restaurant was already in poor condition. Before the pandemic. And then B that there is no adaptations or changes made during the pandemic to help stabilize income of heartless.

Dad 11:39

And you're no longer employed by the restaurant,

Norah 11:41

Yes, I left after. Hi. Yeah, it was not very happy with Paula and I started rumors about me that I stole from the restaurant who I've said

Dad 11:50

And they started those rumors because your character has a history of maybe having sticky fingers

Norah 11:57

no history. It was an occurrence where I did not steal from the restaurant, but I am poor. I don't have money

Dad 12:04

darling. All right. Well, first of all, my darling, if it happened in your past, it is, it is history. Number one, and number two, being poor is not an excuse for

Norah 12:14

No, I didn't steal. I was accused of stealing but I pled guilty in court and I pled guilty in court because I don't have money to pay for a lawyer. And my public defender advised me do plead guilty.

Dad 12:26

So, what I think is really cool about the whole mock trial experience is that they sprinkle in all of these, little evidentiary bombs through the narrative that depending on the, the whims of the judge, that's presiding over your case, will either come in or come out, but there's all kinds of really cool. Like evidence issues surrounding the admissibility of prior criminal convictions. And is it admissible under the rules of evidence? Is it prejudicial? I just think it's really cool the way they, they write the problems to get you guys thinking about thinking about the rules of evidence. Assuming you guys make the objections So you guys have already had one round of competition. you guys field three teams there's blue purple and green did I get that? Right?

Norah 13:19

you're

Dad 13:19

And you're on the green team, which is the least experience it's their first mock trial experience on the.

Norah 13:24

Um, yeah, everyone on green team there a couple people in purple team who it's their first time, just because like, they played like the characters they audition for. It didn't have roles on, purple team. So they are there.

Dad 13:38

And all three Lakeridge teams advanced out of the regionals to the sectionals. Right.

Norah 13:46

no, it was, no, it was districts now we're in regionals. You said it backwards, but yes, the

Dad 13:53

From the districts to the, whatever you're onto the next round. Woo. Go lake Ridge. okay. So, and that's coming up, our episodes drop on Tuesday, you guys are competing on Friday. Um, good luck to green team and to all the Lakeridge teams. Uh, I am hoping, I am hoping my fingers and toes are crossed that I will get to travel down to Columbus to watch you guys in the states, which would be, uh, mazing. So here's the

Norah 14:20

come, sometime next week and watch our practice and get. That would, that would be very appreciated.

Dad 14:28

I gotta look at my schedule. I know I have a board meeting Wednesday night, so it can't be

Norah 14:32

come Tuesday?

Dad 14:33

Monday or Tuesday, maybe Monday or Tuesday. I'll I'll before I get you guys at school, I can, I can come in and, and watch for a little

Norah 14:41

Yes, you should.

Dad 14:42

Yeah. Yeah. SML, if that's

Norah 14:43

That will be fine.

Dad 14:45

What is it that you're enjoying so much about mock trial?

Norah 14:47

I like acting like in theater, a lot of the acting you do, isn't very realistic acting. I mean, like in the last, like in the last musical I did, it was just because like I was playing a freshmen, so, and there wasn't very much acting in the script anyway. So it was pretty like straightforward. but like, I don't know I'm playing a waitress. So I kind of just get to like do my thing and it's, I don't know. It's fun. I like the people in mock trial? I like the coach. I just, I don't know. It's just fun.

Dad 15:24

This is real. This is like your first, this is your first really like team sport experience.'cause you don't, you're not a sporty kid. You don't play, you don't play sports. Okay. But there's not a, like, there's not a badminton. There probably is somewhere a

Norah 15:41

there is a badminton club in Cleveland. I looked it up.

Dad 15:46

okay. But you've never been on a badminton team. My, my point is this is, this is the first like team sport you've taken.

Norah 15:54

Yes,

Dad 15:56

Right. So it's your first experience being part of a team in a competition? That's not true. Fake ID, your old band did the rock off and that was like a team

Norah 16:07

I guess it's just, like at school,

Dad 16:10

but

Norah 16:11

there's a difference

Dad 16:12

so yeah. So, um, what have you, what, what do you think you've learned from the mock trial

Norah 16:18

patients.

Dad 16:20

Patients? Why.

Norah 16:21

Um, well, Out of all of the roles, I will say mine was definitely the easiest in terms of witnesses and attorneys are much more difficult than witnesses, just because like the other witness Ellis, Ms. Dockus has like so many qualifications and so many years of schooling and the person who's playing them had to like memorize all of those numbers and all of those dates. So I kind of don't have to do that. Uh, nothing in my witness statement implies that I went to college. So like, I didn't have any of that to memorize. And in terms of the information that I give, it's pretty like straightforward. Like I never memorized my witness statement. I internalized it like even in directs I've I never memorize the questions I've been asked. I mean, I kind of know him now just from repetition, but I. Just like I, when I'm doing it, I'm able to become the character. And like, I answer every question different every single time that we do it. Anyways, I digress. I memorize things quicker than other people, just because of how like easy my witness statement was to read. So I had to be patient in terms of like memorizing stuff.

Dad 17:38

I, um, walked your first round competition. I thought you guys were great. And I can just tell you, I I've been in court more times than I can count and to see. 14 and 15 year old kids with more presence and more poise and more professionalism in what they, what they were doing in a high school mock trial. Then, some lawyers, I've litigated against over the years. It was super. Super super impressive. And I'm really excited to come on Friday and watch the next round. And I'm really hoping you guys kick butt. And like I said, we get to go to Columbus and, and cheer you guys on, in the state. So good luck Friday. I'm really proud of you. No matter what happens, I'm really proud that you did this definitely outside your comfort zone, I think, to try something new and different. And so I'm really proud that you. Tried the experience. I'm really proud that you've enjoyed it and I've gotten something out of it. And sounds like you want to do it again next year, much to the chagrin of the theater department.

Norah 18:35

I'm going to get killed. Um, yes, I definitely wanna do it next year. I want to maybe be an attorney next year, too. I don't know. I feel like I tend to lawyer for myself as a witness, which isn't. you're not supposed to do that. Like when I was on cross last time, I think I got a little, not aggressive, but just a little defensive, which was not my job. So maybe it would be fun to do that. And I'm pretty good at memorizing stuff. So like memorizing like a four minute speech, wouldn't be too difficult.

Dad 19:08

That's the other thing that was super impressive to me is that you guys all memorized, like the lawyers memorize their openings in their closings, in their directs, in their crosses. And, we don't do that. I don't stand up in court without notes in front of me. I've never given an opening or closing for memory. I've always done it off of an outline or notes. and if not like when I was a younger lawyer, just completely written out, so I didn't screw anything up. Um, so that is super impressive that you guys can do all that. completely for memory and pretty seamless and flawless. So Bravo to your team. I thought you guys were great. Um, and I, like I said, I, I can't wait to watch you guys on Friday. We will, in a future episode, I'm not sure, that by the time we record our next episode, we may not have the scores back

Norah 19:55

won't the OCL or you takes very long to get stuff back just because there's a lot that goes into it. Like we were adding up the math or stuff. It is ourselves. It is a lot of math to do. It is very difficult. So.

Dad 20:08

Yeah, so we may not. So we might not know by our next episode, if your team advanced, but we will give everyone an update, on a future episode as to whether, your team advanced on any and any part of your team, but particularly your, green team, advanced on to

Norah 20:25

I have confidence in blue team. I I'm now confident in All the teams, but I, we trialed against some, the other day. Their objections were very scary. It's terrifying.

Dad 20:37

Alright, I have, I, I have, I have confidence

Norah 20:41

have confidence in my team too. We are, we all work together. It is like, no one does the work by themselves. We all do it together. So

Dad 20:51

Like I said, go green. All right. Nora. If people want to find you in a place, not on this podcast.

Norah 20:59

You can go to Nora Marie. And you where you think of.

Dad 21:04

The Spotify, the apple music, the Facebook, the Twitter, the Instagram, all of the above. You can find that. at John Highman, J O N H Y M a N. And as always, you can find our show, all over the place, but particularly on apple podcasts and Spotify, if you have not yet, left us your. obligatory five-star review. We would greatly appreciate it. So other people that come looking for us see the five stars and understand that, uh, other people think where something that's worth checking out and listening to. And if you're not yet subscribing. Wherever you listen to your podcasts, do that as well. That way they just get pushed to you automatically when they come out every Tuesday and you don't have to worry about looking for us, it will just show up in the queue All right, Nora, any final parting words?

Norah 21:59

Nope. I'm good.

Dad 22:01

All right. Have a good week, everyone. We'll see you next week, nor good luck Friday in a mock trial competition.

Norah 22:07

Love you, too.